GOOD MORNING ALL!!!! Sorry if you felt like I was yelling at you … the truth of the matter is that I am lazy and don't like hitting the shift button J but any way for your over the coffee jitters I will. Just a few words here because I am a little pressed for time today, but I would like you to look at gal. 4 for a moment, In verse 5 Paul does use the words adoption of sons…..contextually you will see that he is speaking to the Jews that were under the law of Moses not the gentiles…..Paul was a Jew born under the law so therefore he used the word we as it also related to him and many of the people of those days. Now if you look at Romans 5:6-8 he states that jesus died for us even though we were sinners and he did so with the conviction that his sacrifice would not be wasted and that many would take advantage of it to be baptized into his salvation and grace. By being born we are given this great opportunity to be a part of this kingdom. No matter where you were born nor what race or country you are entitled to this great chance of salvation. In many instances in the bible God shows us that many of his chosen are know before birth. God knows before we are even born who is going to do his will but everyone has the opportunity at salvation now if they choose it or not is their decision. I am not saying nor have I said that we were saved from birth just that we have the right to be. Now to contradict myself a little here I do believe that from birth to the individual's inception point of right and wrong, they are not held accountable and are saved. Now that is what I think if you would let me know your thoughts and views. Have a wonderful and beautiful day….blessings and love to all. J
14 comments:
Dear Sir,
If you look at my comment, you will notice I began in Gal. 3:25 (though I should have begun in v. 13 of chapter 3) and continued through Gal. 4:4 (I actually meant to go through 6 but missed it in my tired state, sorry). This is because it was all in context. Paul was speaking to Christian brethren (Gal. 1:1-2) and makes the argument that there is no difference between the Greek and the Jew, bond and free, male and female because they had been baptized into Christ which means they had put on Christ and those that had put on Christ (whether Jew or Gentile) were Abraham's seeds and therefore heirs according to God's promise. He then continues his discourse upon the heir noting that the child and the servant have the same standing even though the child shall rule some day, they both are under the rule of the father. Notice he (Paul) still has not changed tone (Those in Christ are the seed of Abraham) we who are children WERE under bondage to the elements of the world. God, at His appointed time (in the fullness of time) sent His Son made of woman (Gen. 3:15 comes to mind here) under the Law (the only way of salvation at the time of Christ's coming a.k.a. the schoolmaster) to redeem those under that law (the same law that convicts all, not just some, under sin Ro. 5:12-14) that we (Paul and those to whom he was writing, Jews and Greeks) might receive the adoption of sons. Since they (again the Jewish and Gentile brethren in the church in the Greek province of Galatia) ARE sons, God sent His Spirit that they might cry Abba, Father. Contextually, we see then, that Paul was referring to those who are Christians which had been convicted of sin by means of the Law. These were those who received adoption into God's family.
On to your second point. Praise the Lord that Jesus died while I was yet in my sins. Yet to say that we have a RIGHT to the opportunity of salvation through Jesus' sacrifice fundamentally says that God owes us an opportunity to be saved. Let me ask you, "Did God cause us to sin?" or "Is it God's fault that we sinned?" I would have to answer those 2 questions with the same reference: James 1:12-16. The only way in which we would have the RIGHT to the opportunity of salvation through Christ is if God were the cause of our disobedience which James says is not the case rather our own lusts draw us into sin. Therefore the opportunity of salvation is not a right but a gift (Ro. 5:12-21; Eph 2:1-8).
Amen to your point about the children.
I am sorry that my previous post was under the Anonymous tag. I am new to this blogging. I hope that my apology (defense) of my point made in the previous post has made sense and that we might continue to engage in these thought-provoking discussions.
Christian
Let me begin by agreeing with some of your statements.
From birth to the age of accountability all are safe and unaccountable. Ezek. 18:20
God is all-knowing and knows who will be saved. Romans 8:29-30
God allows and requires us to choose salvation or sin. Josh. 24:15
Jesus died for us while we were yet sinners Rom. 5:8
Only those baptized into Christ will be saved. Mk. 16:16, Gal.3:27, Rom. 6:3-4, etal.
Now if I may let me help you with your contextual study of Gal.4. The book of Galatians was addressed to the "churches of Galatia" which would have to mean those who had obeyed the Gospel (Acts 2:38-47) also evidenced by his statement in 1:6. This being the case he was addressing some who were of Jewish decent who had become Christians and not the Jewish people as whole. We must also understand that there were probably Gentile Christians there as well for he said in 3:27-28 "For as many of you as were baptized into Christ did put on Christ. There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free. . . ye are all one man in Christ Jesus." Throughout this book Paul shows the superiority of the Law of Christ to the law of Moses. While he is expressly speaking to the Jewish Christians in 4:5 we must conclude from the greater context that any who obey the Gospel receive the adoption of sons. (see also Eph. 1:5 and 2:11-22)
Websters online dictionary defines "right" in the sense that I understand you to mean as follows:
"something that one may properly claim as due". Since God does not owe us anything I reject the use of the term in this way. Our sins have separated us from God (Isa. 59:1-2) and God has offered us a way of reconciliation, His Son! Let us accept His offer and be reconciled.
Hello ya'all Jesus died so that all mankind has the chance or hope of salvation right? We all agree that there are steps that you have to go through to recive this gift.To your comments about the right to salvation,Jesus invites everyone to come and follow him. Salvation is a gift, but he tells us the steps to recieve it. If we don't have the right to take some thing and we take it then that is considerd stealing.
I'm new to using compuers so I don't know how to put smily faces but I would if i could.
Hi Fred: If something is given to you that you did not earn and you take it you are not stealing but receiving. So it is with the gift of salvation! It is offered to us and we have the option, opportunity, privilege to take (receive) it.
We, all seem to agree that God does not owe us any thing.I firmly believe this.I thank God every chance I can for the blessing he gives me. Josiah glad to see you agree whith me on the part about stealing.
Dear Fred,
As Josiah said, if something is GIVEN to us, and we take it even though we have not earned it, then we are NOT theives who steal something that is not ours nor given to us.
Salvation is not owed to us but freely given to us (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8; and others) should we (as all here have agreed) follow the required steps of acceptance. Therefore we are not stealing anything but accepting the gift.
Christian
Hello ya'all. That was my Point.If you have a gift for little Bobby, and little jimmy takes it, then little jimmy stole it.If you tell little billy you will leave a gift on the counter for him but he has to clean his room first, after he cleans his room he is entitled to his gift, right? You don't owe little Billy anything, it was a gift.
last comment by anonymous was by me
Dear Fred,
What do you mean by entitled? Are you saying we can earn salvation?
Please explain with Scripture references so I can follow along.
Christian
Hello ya'all. No where have I writen that we can earn salvation. In John 3:16 it says "For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten son" ect. In other words the world has the chance to be saved If they follow God. When God promises some thing then we are intitled to it because He promised it. right?
Many diddos to "Praise the Lord"!!!
God is, truly, awsome!!! One of our silly human characteristics is to be "right fighters" I would like to encourage all to be truth fighters and am sure this is what we are truly after =) The truth is yes it is a gift and yes it is a right. The gift is that we have been given the right to God's salvation through his Son Jesus Christ. The scripture explains it, Hebrews 12:16-17. Esau had a birthright it was given to him because he was the first born. Since we do not get to choose what order we are born in what did Esau do to earn his birthright? Nothing it was to be given to him although he chose to give it away. So the truth is God has promised us salvation if we love Him and keep his commandments, 1John 5:1-11. The Word says that if we love him we will keep his commandments and in turn Jesus blood will be applied to our sins and we will be given eternal life that is in His Son (1John 5:1-11) The truth is it is due us because God said he would give it to us if we keep his commandments. The truth is we did not earn it through our selves, we earned it through Jesus who covered our sins, who paid our debt. So yes,it is a birthright Ephesians 1:4-14 we begin life with salvation, however there are certain steps we must take to keep our birthright and in so doing them we are due the gift which God has promised. When we turn away from God we give up that birthright, that gift.
Christian, the Bible says that God created all things in heaven and earth. I wrote that in a different comment. can you tell me what your inderstand this to mean? also want to say am injoying the discussions. :)
Breezn, welcome to the discussion. I think I understand what you mean in that I am one who fights for what is right and also I fight for the truth, Philippians 1:16.
Perhaps you can explain for me the following:
1. Where in the scripture is salvation referred to as a birhtright?
2. Why is it so important to consider it to be such?
3. Does our birthright begin at physical birth or at the "new birth"?
4. If we begin life with sinless why do we need salvation at that time? From what are we being saved?
Hope you can help me better understand where you are coming from.
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