Thursday, April 10, 2008
THOUGHT
HELLO ALL ….JUST A QUICK NOTE AND MORE TO COME LATER…. what gives a person hope? Since you agreed that up to the point of clearly understanding right from wrong we are saved or not accountable thus being saved, are you saying that we are not born saved? That we don’t have the right to be saved at birth? The point at which we lose this magnificent blessing is at the point that we sell ourselves to sin knowing the facts and consequences of our actions. But due to our worldly desires to be like the kid down the block or the neighbors down the street or what have you, we choose to seek worldly gain through worldly ways. You as a person of reason, decide at the age of accountability what your course is going to be, how you are going to take on life and accomplish your dreams
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7 comments:
Well contagious1 please consider the following carefully!
1. Right as you are using it is defined as "something that one may properly claim as due". Our creditors know that they have a claim to our resources in the amount that is due. In other words "we owe them". God does not owe anyone salvation!!!!! God offers salvation to anyone who will meet the conditions set forth in His word. If God OWES us salvation then we are not saved by grace. But the scriptures clearly say that we are saved by grace (Ephesians 2:5) therefore it is not a right.
2. You will agree that one is born free from sin, right? (Ezekiel 18:20). One who has no sin has no need of salvation, a child who has not reached the age of accountability has no sin. Therefore a child who has not reached the age of accountability has no need of salvation. This being the case he has no claim to salvation therefore no right! BUT he also has no fear of eternal damnation because he has no sin. He is safe!
We loose our safe status when we as you put it "sell ourselves to sin". At that point we stand in need of a saviour. God offers us salvation according to the terms set forth in His Word and grants us the freedom to choose salvation or to suffer eternal damnation.
Dear Sir,
I believe that I must have been unclear in stating my point of disagreement with your statement about our right to salvation. For that I am sorry and shall endeavor to clarify my apology.
1.) You have used the term right in your last few postings as defined by Webster and I quote from you entry entitled Birth Right or Not: "NOW, WEBSTER'S SAYS THIS, Right, privilege, or possession to which a person is entitled by BIRTH." to argue that we, just by being born, are entitled to salvation. I challenge you in the spirit of love to provide Scriptural references to back this claim. The writer of Hebrews is the only NT writer to utilize the word 'right' meaning " privilege, that is, (subjectively) force, capacity, competency, freedom, or (objectively) mastery (concretely magistrate, superhuman, potentate, token of control), delegated influence: - authority, jurisdiction, liberty, power, right, strength." and that was in Hebrews 13:9-10 contrasting the saved ones partaking at the altar to those serving (or living under) the tabernacle. I restate my previous point that we cannot hold God in debt to us. He owes us nothing who have turned our backs to Him and sinned. Also as Josiah pointed out, it is only by the grace of God that His gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ is offered.
One final point on this subject. To say that we are owed salvation because we are born is to denigrate God to a position of being lower than ourselves and raises us to sit on His throne. In fact, it denies that we are in anyway responsible for our actions by laying the blame of our birth (which then results in our committing sin the longer we reside upon this earth) at His feet instead of being a result of man's free moral agency.
2.) Salvation according to the Hebrew lexicon in the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance with Hebrew and Greek is defined as:
ישׁוּעה
yeshû‛âh
yesh-oo'-aw
Feminine passive participle of H3467; something saved, that is, (abstractly) deliverance; hence aid, victory, prosperity: - deliverance, health, help (-ing), salvation, save, saving (health), welfare.
In the Greek it is:
σωτηρία
sōtēria
so-tay-ree'-ah
Feminine of a derivative of G4990 as (properly abstract) noun; rescue or safety (physically or morally): - deliver, health, salvation, save, saving.
As you can see these two words are extremely similar in definition and mean deliverance or rescuing. As both you and Josiah pointed out, children have not the understanding of good and evil and therefore sin is not imputed or laid to their charge. Why then would they be in need of salvation or deliverance and from what are they to be delivered? Jesus, Himself, said (in dealing with Zacchaeus' realization of his sin) that He was come to seek and save them that are lost (Luke 19:10). I am therefore puzzled as to how a child is lost? I must answer that the child is not lost and not in need of rescuing/salvation rather he/she is safe from damnation and in a right relationship with God. See Ezekiel 18; Deut. 24:16. Sin in not transferred from generation to generation. See Matt. 18:3ff & 19:13-14. Disciples of Christ are to be like little children for that is the Kingdom of Heaven.
Thank you the another stimulating discussion and I look forward to reading your reply.
Christian
Dear Sir,
I suddenly realized I had not answered you fist question: "What gives a person hope?" The short answer is the end result that we are expecting. For example: the masters of the slave who told fortunes in Acts 16:16-20 hoped or expected great gain from their possession (and as Acts records received it). Her money-making ability in her divinations is what offered them hope until Paul took it away.
In Romans 5, Paul shows us in the opening verses (1-5) that we have hope in the glory of God because we are justified by faith and have access through faith to the grace of God.
In Romans 8:22-25, Paul also records that we are suffering and waiting our adoption or redemption and that we are saved by hope in our redemption which has not occurred yet.
Another great dissertation upon that which gives us hope is Hebrews 6. In it the Hebrew writer declares that we have the full confidence or assurance of hope when we give diligence to following those who inherit the promises through faith and patience. He reminds us that God is the giver of the promises, that He is righteous in remembering those who followed Him, and that He cannot lie therefore He swore by Himself and that is our sure and steadfast anchor of hope.
Finally, though there are many other verses detailing our hope throughout the NT, the apostle John wrote that while we are called sons of God, our expectation is that at His appearing we shall be like Him and therefore we purify ourselves just like He is pure. I John 3:1-3
What gives me hope? my faith that God is righteous and will give me the salvation He has promised when I have fought my fight and stayed true to His word. Praise God for forgiveness.
Christian
Hello ya'all. In several places in the Bible it says that God created all things, in heaven and in the earth.
Dear Fred
I couldn't agree with you more. Could you expound a little more on you thought and how it relates to the discussion?
Christian
Dear Fred,
You wrote this in another thread:
"Christian, the Bible says that God created all things in heaven and earth. I wrote that in a different comment. can you tell me what your inderstand this to mean? also want to say am injoying the discussions. :)"
The Bible says exactly that God created all things in heaven and on earth. (Genesis 1; John 1:1-5 & 14; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:10). I believe that what the Bible records is exactly true, to wit, God created all things in heaven and in the earth.
What I was asking was how this statement of yours related to our discussion of whether man has a right to salvation or not.
Christian
Ludidka, welcome. I want to offer my sincere apoligies, and I pray that I have not caused anyone to stumble. I thank you for pointing out that I might be confusing new christian, as that was not my goal, I will be more careful.
Christian for the above reason I will not continue with this discussion(about God created everything ect.).
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